TV Writer Chat: Getting & Giving Notes Transcript for July 22, 2012

Major difficulties getting the transcript tonight, but I didn't want to lose this one.?

Getting and Giving Notes - Sarah & TV Writer Chat co-moderating:

This will read from the bottom up, and some of the Twitter handles are missing, but at least it's better than no transcript. Sorry for the inconvenience, but our regular transcript service only got the last 3 minutes of the chat.?

about 6 minutes ago #tvwriterchat transcript is having technical difficulties. Only last 3 minutes on the report site. Working on it... about 57 minutes ago http://t.co/N6GzPuPj Come for the free read, stay for the consultancy! (Please read this in Sea Captain Voice) #tvwriterchat #scriptchat about 1 hour ago Good stuff, as usual! Have a great week, everyone! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars @TVWriterChat I used to take right notes to heart. Then I learned it's exactly what I needed. Knowledge is good. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Great chatting with everybody as usual. Happy writing and feedback giving/receiving! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat Uggghhh, I feel that. WORST. I'm currently revising based on notes from similar situation. Absolute terror. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat Wow-I always want feedback if only bc I'm dying to share my stories.But I take wrong notes to heart sometimes. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat I was looking on the website of available scripts... there were a few choices. We'll have to decide :) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars When I entered fellowships last year, I let my mentor read my work for the first time. I was sick while waiting #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Sounds like fun! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat Yay, special guest! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Got any script ideas for the chat? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars I wrote 4 scripts before I ever let anyone read one. I was too terrified to let some read and critique. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat (which is where I am right now; it's esp. hard when the one person is well connected or u admire them) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Next week we're discussing a TBD procedural script (not a pilot this time) We'll post the link to read it on the chat website! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Nice! RT @TVWriterChat BTW, I'm working on a very special guest, who can tell us what happens when the one person "gets it." #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Wow, this hour flew by! I'll have the transcript posted in a bit. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat I need to remind myself of that often, esp. when I worry too much about one person's opinion of my work. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago BTW, I'm working on a very special guest, who can tell us what happens when the one person "gets it." #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @TVWriterChat: When u find a good reader, who's honest & takes the time,cherish them and return the favor. They are so few. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Absolutely true. And when that happens, we break out the champagne. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago When you find a good reader, who is honest and takes the time, cherish them and return the favor. They are so few. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Other general note advice: It only takes ONE PERSON who "gets it" to change everything, from the script itself to your career. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars @SarahAlexis4 and a great place to learn from.... #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 THAT is the most terrifying question, especially if you can see it and reader can't. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Seems like it's a good idea for a spec to get both seasoned viewers and non-viewers feedback... #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 That's the part that scares me the most, will it have legs? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @SarahAlexis4: Also with a pilot, what's the franchise? Can you see what this series would look like? Does it have legs? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat @mr_kiyongkim I'll add strong and clear characters to that. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @mr_kiyongkim: @countmystars yeah i use wiki pages for reference even for shows i know. such a great resource. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Also with a pilot, what's the franchise? Can you see what this series would look like? Does it have legs? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim I think getting non-viewer to really "get" show/chars from yr spec=sign that it's solid.I've been on both sides. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars yeah i use wiki pages for reference even for shows i know. such a great resource. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat Good question! The characters have to be compelling enough that you'd want to keep watching/live with them. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Most important words: relationships and conflicts! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago for notes on pilots, i look for how clearly the character relationships and conflicts are established for future episodes #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Some of my most valuable notes on my spec were from reader who'd only read Wiki pg;she understood show instantly #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Absolutely. We used to watch each others shows and study them a bit before giving any feedback. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 With early scripts/stories - as the note-giver ask questions if it's early on 2c what writer's intention is. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Whether I got the characters & show's voice right; whether ppl who never saw show before "get it" from my script #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 With pilot, I want to know if the reader would DVR the show. Want to see characters every week. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat Very true. Before you go to script, you have to bring an outline to the room/showrunner/network,etc. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 for giving notes on a spec, you have to know the show so you can give notes on voice, tone, previous stories. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Exactly. If someone can clearly see the characters of that show in your spec. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago And if my spec storylines properly meld with the world of the show. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars With writers group it's whole different animal I think. It starts very early in the process. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago With specs I want feedback on whether or not I have the voice/tone/structure of the show and characters down. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 In TV writing, your first critique is going to be at the outline stage, so this might be good for "aspiring" too #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Sometimes u can lose story if you ask too early.Then again, sometimes people have great input from the getgo. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago How about when giving/getting notes on a spec script? What specifically do you look for when giving/getting notes on one? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 My writers group sees it at each stage. I also get 1-2 other readers for first draft and 3-4 for revision. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat for me, yeah, i focus on structure before humor. a sitcom has to have a story. can't just be a bunch of jokes. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 With mentor: outline. With other writers, after several rewrites and I've found everything I can. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @SarahAlexis4: What point in ur writing process do u generally seek feedback? We heard some 4outline. 1st draft? Rewrite? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat That's great; if I hear enough references to certain shows I'll move them up in my ever-growing "to watch" queue #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Great question. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago What point in your writing process do you generally seek out feedback? We heard some for outline. 1st draft? Rewrite? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim So structure before humor? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars I find myself watching a lot of movies/TV shows if references are shows I don't watch. What R they doing right? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @emilyfbrownell Lena Dunham is awkward writer! Knowing you have a voice is as important as knowing not everyone will get it #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim That's great! (re: pilot) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Great idea. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki I had a script consultant not realize who the real killer was at the end of the script. Absolutely my fault! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago when i was at nick, i realized karen didn't care about good jokes if the story/structure wasn't solid. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Great! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat Lena Dunham is an awkward writer! Knowing you have a voice is as important as knowing not everyone will get it. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Awesome! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth @mr_kiyongkim Thanks. Would love to see it. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim That's great! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat I use movie/show/book references; I find it also gives listener an idea of my frame of reference for my taste/bg #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Something that seemed so clear, wasn't that clear to reader. Too vague. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat one person liked my pilot and asked me to send him my next one when i'm finished with it. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat LOL. Living well is the best revenge? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Speaking of pitching. Did anything come from GAPF connections? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 I sometimes think the notes referring to other shows or movies can be helpful. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars That was one of mine too! A great one to keep in mind. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @GCGeek Phew, good! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Interesting. Yes, I once heard that you shouldn't pitch a problem if you don't have a possible solution to offer #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @GCGeek @TVwriterchat Consider the source. Wise words. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Begin as late as possible, end as early as possible. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 I was totally fine with your notes on my note. ;-) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars And the novel she trashed was a bestseller earlier this year. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago kind of related to notes, when you're in the room, you're supposed to pitch positive and not pitch problems. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Anybody care to share any general/broad script notes you have received that you found/continue to find helpful? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat I've seen notes for someone's script that were night and day. Consider the source. Never give up. Keep learning. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat That's terrible! I'm sorry that happened. But you returned to it, so YOU WIN. :) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Nice - positive beginning and end. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Definitely. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars I'm reading scripts just to write coverage that no one will see. Just for practice, when I have time. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth @mr_kiyongkim Do you know where that research is? I'd love to read it. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Your instinct and your integrity are just as valuable as your openness; balance is the key. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @GCGeek There are good and bad ways to convey notes. And you're right, start off positive. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 It is surprisingly easy to be *too* open in the name of not being one of THOSE writers who resists everything + #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @GCGeek No, I agree, I got what you were saying :) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim There's research showing if u just get ++ feedback (e.g. notes jus focused on what worked), you "flow" more. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars I agree! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago I once got a note from an agent telling me my writing was awkward. I stopped writing for almost 2 years. Not smart. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 I kind of mixed two points in there. :-) Hearing what worked boost my confidence for sure. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @GCGeek I have an ironclad rule to start & end w/ positive remarks, even in coverage meant for producer/that writer won't see. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat @SarahAlexis4 It's not end of the world no matter what. It's information that can lead to a better piece. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Well said. Important to keep in mind. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @GCGeek Nothing wrong w/ pointing out something you liked/thought worked well, but, yes, honesty will help more than flattery! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat @mr_kiyongkim There's a LOT of attention paid to structure in certain groups 2the detriment of other elements. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Exactly. Did they "get" it? Did you convey the story properly? But waiting for notes terrifies me. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @countmystars: 1 pitfall of getting notes is assuming youre always wrong/reader is always right. Just as bad as reverse. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim I have a hard time getting past the structure to get to the actual writing. Not sure why. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago One secret pitfall of getting notes is assuming you're always wrong/reader is always right. Just as bad as the reverse. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @TVWriterChat To me that's 1 of the best things about notes,seeing the story through other people's eyes instead of just mine. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Some note givers start with what worked and what they liked - lowers the defenses. Honesty over flattery is best #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @TVWriterChat: The best thing I get...I realize I didnt get my thought on the page. But I saw it because it was in my head. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth For example, I won't give notes on certain genres/subjects because I know I can't be helpful. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth And go back and reevaluate the noted area of your script yourself and see what your gut feeling is as well. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Do they ever! RT @art1032: RT @countmystars: @melissroth Yes -- also, consider source; every reader has biases. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 yeah i always start with the big structural notes first. once the structure is sound, the other stuff goes quick #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago The best thing I get from notes, I realize I didn't get my thought on the page. But I saw it because it was in my head. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @countmystars: @melissroth Absolutely!! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @countmystars: @melissroth Yes -- also, consider source; every reader has biases. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @WriteCoachKiki: @SarahAlexis4 Forget your preconceived notions about the piece. Will the note make it stronger? Period. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Try to listen, take my own notes, ask questions if need to and not defend but clarifying when necessary #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth What works for you? Definitely ask more people and see if there's a common thread that you're hearing. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Read them through. Anything that I agree with/want to play with I make specific notes for. And then, rewrites! #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth I've learned from experience that it IS possible for the note-giver to be wrong. Be open, but trust your gut too. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim So you start with the top of the list, the more important/bigger notes? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Interesting.RT @melissroth: Hardest part is when you get completely contradictory feedback. Then what? go find a tie breaker? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Forget your preconceived notions about the piece. Will the note make it stronger? Period. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth Yes -- also, consider source; every reader has biases. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago when i gives notes for comedy scripts, i try to mark all the jokes that i liked. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago My favorite note is "lol" Just sayin' #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 i compile all the notes i received from everyone and list them in order of importance before rewriting. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Hardest part is when you get completely contradictory feedback. Then what? go find a tie breaker? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Directness from the note giver should be taken in the spirit of quick and dirty input. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago It could be easy to get overwhelmed, anybody have any set process or plan of attack for addressing notes after you get 'em? #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki Absolutely, but the good thing is it will make you a stronger writer. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @IngridElkner Giving and getting notes #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Don't know how to put this nicely, but have to be ready to take sh*t. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago I'm a firm believer in the work being the most important thing.The work has to be the best it can be. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @SarahAlexis4: Showrunners & writing staffs want to work w/people who're receptive to notes & give thoughtful/helpful notes #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago And in screenwriting receiving & executing notes is extremely important when developing screenplay with a producer/studio/etc. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Gotta love that awkward silence. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago It's hard but.... I learned that early in my writing. (Argh) RT @art1032: @WriteCoachKiki Exactly take it all in w/open mind. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago I've been lucky enough to find writers that have written a lot more than me offer notes. I learned to trust them and let go. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Showrunners and writing staffs want to work with people who are receptive to notes and give thoughtful/helpful notes. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars Absolutely. Also, you *want* to know why they think what they do. Can always learn something. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Excellent point! RT @SarahAlexis4: Some notes may point out real issue even if don't offer correct solution, still valuable. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Try and say something positive before you say anything negative. (I've messed up here but try and remember it.) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki I ask questions if receiving notes "live"; shows note-giver I'm paying attn, avoids awkward silence #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki Exactly take it all in w/open mind. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago It really is difficult to find someone to read your scripts and give honest feedback. Be gracious for their time. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Some notes may point out a real issue but may not offer the correct solution, still really valuable. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 @efissenden Excellent point to keep in mind. People gave your work time out of their lives. Appreciate it. :) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim Usually the major problems are in the structure. Fix in advance for a better story. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Ask questions about the note though, you learn a lot even if you decide not to use it. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago + means you're not receptive to problems in the script. If a note doesn't make sense, it just means *something* isn't working. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @efissenden Yes, part of being a gracious receiver of notes! Somebody is taking the time to read/give notes, accept it well. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @efissenden Agree. You don't have to tell the note-giver what works/what you're taking. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth I think non-writer friends can be helpful in a way, another kind of perspective. More like an audience reaction... #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago RT @TVWriterChat: The first thing I do when I get notes is read and put them away. Let them stew before getting defensive. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim I never asked for feedback on outlines til I took a workshop earlier this year; now I can't imagine NOT asking. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Worst thing you can do is argue over notes. Use what works, discard the rest. You could lose your note-giver if you argue. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki Yes, exactly #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @mr_kiyongkim That's cool, saves you from some possible trouble later on and they are part of the process from early on. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @melissroth Can be good for testing audience reaction, but they need to have a good sense of story. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Agreed. You might think you made something so clear but really.... #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars I've heard that!! But if u have bitter prof. or ppl who don't have ur best interest at heart... #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago in my writers groups, we give notes on the outline before we get to script pages so we can really work out the structure. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki YES! It can be difficult to remove yourself enough from the story to see things with fresh/unbiased eyes. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Writer's groups are good for development, consult's for final refinement, and contests... meh. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @countmystars I like that rule of three. Very true. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @WriteCoachKiki I studied art, and we had in-class critiques weekly; feedback on writing is usually less brutal ;) #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Don't be afraid to do some digging. Try not to be precious about your script, will only hold it back. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago Important thing 2keep in mind is-something might seem obvious 2u because u *know* it objective observer sees smthing else. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Exactly, something not quite fleshed out enough in the beginning. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago @SarahAlexis4 Writers group, longtime critique partner, occasionally nonwriters who watch show/genre I'm writing in. #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago It's OK for someone to have a better take, a better joke, a better out. In the end, the script is better & THAT's what matters #tvwriterchat about 1 hour ago my writers groups (i have several) have been invaluable for notes! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago Often a note may reveal a bigger issue, possibly one that requires going back to the 1st act where many problems stem from. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @mr_kiyongkim I follow the rule of three. If two people say the same thing, question it; if three do, fix it NOW. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago first reaction is defensive RT @SarahAlexis4: Really hear the notes & allow yourself to sit with them, dont just react/defend #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago Developed a thick skin for it in grad school. People would rip work to shreds & you were captive audience.Xcellent practice. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago What are some sources you all use for notes? ie) a writers group? script consult? contest feedback? #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @countmystars Exactly. Once I process the notes, I realize the person was right about a lot of it. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @SarahAlexis4 *waves* #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago multiple people giving you the same note is always something to pay attention to. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @mr_kiyongkim Absolutely, not only helps the script but makes us as a writer stronger to hear honest feedback. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @TVWriterChat Which is very difficult when you're receiving notes over the telephone. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago Really hear the notes and allow yourself to sit with them, don't just react/defend #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @TVWriterChat Me too. I avoid responding to the person right away. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @TVWriterChat hi! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago RT @TVWriterChat: Interrupting #scriptchat for this commercial break: #tvwriterchat topic tonight (in 45 minutes) is Getting & Giving Notes. about 2 hours ago it's always great when you find reliable people who will give you good, honest notes. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @art1032 Hello back! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago The first thing I do when I get notes is read and put them away. Let them stew before getting defensive. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago Hi All! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @countmystars Hello! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @mr_kiyongkim Hey, good to see you! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago Greetings #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago This is Jamie. I'll be tweeting from the TV Writer Chat account tonight. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago @mr_kiyongkim Hi! #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago And maybe we can share some great general script notes we've received so we can all learn from them. #tvwriterchat about 2 hours ago hello everyone #tvwriterchat

about 2 hours ago Tonight we're talking how to be a gracious receiver and professional giver of script notes. #tvwriterchat

Source: http://www.tvwriterchat.com/2012/07/getting-giving-notes-transcript-for_22.html

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